Bava Kamma 85

Chapter 85

א או גיורת זכה
1 or a proselytess the defendant would be the first to acquire title [to all the claims and thus be released from any liability]? — Rabbah thereupon said: We deal [in this latter case] with a divorced woman.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For otherwise the husband would inherit her claim for damages. ');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב אמר רבה בגרושה וכן אמר ר"נ בגרושה
2 So also said R. Nahman [that we deal here] with a divorced woman. [But] I might [here] object: If she was divorced, why should she not also share in the compensation for the value of the embryo?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since she was his wife no more. ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ג אמרי גרושה נמי תיפלוג בדמי ולדות
3 — R. Papa thereupon said: The Torah awarded the value of embryos to the husband even where the cohabitation had taken place not in a married state, the reason being that Scripture says: <i>According as the cohabitator<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Hebrew term [H] ('husband' E.V.) is thus understood. ');"><sup>3</sup></span></i>
ד אמר רב פפא התורה זכתה דמי ולדות לבעל אפילו בא עליה בזנות מאי טעמא אמר קרא (שמות כא, כב) כאשר ישית עליו בעל האשה
4 of the woman will lay upon him.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ex. XXI, 22. ');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ה ונוקמה לרבה כגון שגבו מעות ולר"נ כגון שגבו קרקע
5 But why should not Rabbah refer the ruling<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the damages will be paid to her heirs and not to the husband. ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ו דאמר רבה גבו קרקע יש לו גבו מעות אין לו ור"נ אמר גבו מעות יש לו גבו קרקע אין לו
6 to the case where the payment of the compensation had been collected in money, and R. Nahman to the case where it had been collected out of land? For did Rabbah not say<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' B.B. 124b. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ז אמרי הני מילי לבני מערבא אליבא דרבנן
7 that where an outstanding debt had been collected<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After the death of a creditor. ');"><sup>7</sup></span>
ח כי קאמרי הכא כרבי:
8 out of land, the first-born son would take in it [a double portion],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In accordance with Deut. XXI. 17. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
ט אמר ר"ש בן לקיש שור שהמית את העבד שלא בכוונה פטור משלשים שקלים שנאמר (שמות כא, לב) כסף שלשים שקלים יתן לאדוניו והשור יסקל כל זמן שהשור בסקילה הבעלים משלמין שלשים שקלים אין השור בסקילה אין הבעלים משלמין שלשים שקלים
9 but where it had been collected in money the first-born son would not [take in it a double portion]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because the debt collected after the death of the father was not a chose in possession in the lifetime of the creditor, and the first-born takes a double portion only 'of all that' his father 'hath' at the time of death. A husband is in a similar position, as he too has the right to inherit only chooses in possession at the lifetime of his wife. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>
י אמר רבה שור שהמית בן חורין שלא בכוונה פטור מכופר שנאמר (שמות כא, כט) השור יסקל וגם בעליו יומת אם כופר יושת עליו כל זמן שהשור בסקילה בעלים משלמין כופר אין השור בסקילה אין בעלים משלמין כופר
10 Or again did R. Nahman not say<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 243, n. 10. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
יא איתיביה אביי המית שורי את פלוני או שורו של פלוני ה"ז משלם ע"פ עצמו מאי לאו כופר
11 that [on the contrary] where the debt had been collected in money the first-born would take [in it a double portion],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For the money collected is considered in the eye of the law as the money which was lent to the father of the debtor. ');"><sup>11</sup></span>
יב לא דמים
12 but where it has been collected out of land, the first-born son would not [take in it a double portion]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 243, n. 13. ');"><sup>12</sup></span>
יג אי דמים אימא סיפא המית שורי את עבדו של פלוני אינו משלם על פי עצמו ואי דמים אמאי לא
13 — It could, however, be answered that these statements were made on the basis of the despatch of the Western Sages according to the view of the Rabbis,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 243, n. 10. ');"><sup>13</sup></span>
יד אמר ליה יכילנא לשנויי לך רישא דמים וסיפא קנס מיהו שנוייא דחיקא לא משנינא לך אידי ואידי דמים
14 whereas in the case here [where Rabbah and R. Nahman interpreted it to have referred to a divorced woman] they were stating the law as maintained by Rabbi.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That debts collected after the death of a creditor whether in species or out of land will be subject to the law of double portion in the case of a first-born and similarly to the law of a husband inheriting his wife. v. B.B. (Sonc. ed.) p. 518. ');"><sup>14</sup></span> R. Simeon b. Lakish said: Where an ox killed a slave without purposing to do so, there would be exemption from the payment of thirty <i>shekels</i>, since it is written, He shall give unto their master thirty <i>shekels</i> of silver, and the ox shall be stoned,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Ex. XXI, 32. ');"><sup>15</sup></span> [implying that] where the ox would be liable to be stoned the owner is to pay thirty <i>shekels</i>, but where the ox would not be liable to be stoned<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As e.g., where it killed a human being by accident. ');"><sup>16</sup></span> the owner need not pay thirty <i>shekels</i>. Rabbah [similarly] said: Where an ox killed a freeman without purposing to do so there would be exemption from <i>kofer</i>, for it is written<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ex. XXI, 29. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> The ox should be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death. If there be laid on him a ransom, [implying that] where the ox has to be stoned<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As e.g., where it killed a human being by accident. ');"><sup>16</sup></span> the owner has not to pay <i>kofer</i>. Abaye raised an objection to this [from the following Mishnah]:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Keth. III, 9. ');"><sup>18</sup></span> If a man says: 'My ox has killed so-and-so' or 'has killed so-and-so's' ox, [in either case] the defendant has to pay in virtue of his own admission. Now, does the payment [in the former case]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where the defendant admitted that his ox killed a man. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> not mean <i>kofer</i> [though the ox would not become liable to be stoned through the owner's admission]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Without the corroboration of witnesses; v. supra p. 236, n. 8. ');"><sup>20</sup></span> — No; [it means for] the actual value.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the pecuniary loss sustained through the man's death. [It is distinguished from kofer in that the payment of the latter is an act of atonement to be compounded in no circumstance; v. Tosaf. s.v. [H].] ');"><sup>21</sup></span> If [it means payment for] the pecuniary loss, read the concluding clause: [If he says], 'My ox has killed so-and-so's slave,' the defendant is not liable to pay in virtue of his own admission.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As the payment of thirty shekels in the case of a slave is of the nature of a penalty which could not be inflicted on the strength of the word of mouth of the defendant. ');"><sup>22</sup></span> Now, if [the payment referred to in the first clause was meant for] the pecuniary loss, why is there no liability [to pay for the pecuniary loss in the case of a slave]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Does this not prove that in the case of manslaughter committed by cattle no payment for the pecuniary loss would have to be made if you except kofer in the case of a freeman, and the thirty shekels in the case of a slave? ');"><sup>23</sup></span> — He, however, said to him: I could have answered you that the opening clause refers to the actual value<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. the pecuniary loss sustained through his death. ');"><sup>24</sup></span> [of the killed person],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which has to be paid even where kofer could for some reason or other not be imposed upon the defendant. ');"><sup>25</sup></span> whereas the concluding clause refers to the fixed fine [of thirty <i>shekels</i>]. As, however, I have no intention to answer you by means of forced interpretations, [I will say that] both clauses do in fact refer to the actual value [of the killed person].